BETA: AdminBot COOP Points System
 

Hello everyone,

Following on from the new server statistics launch, please now be advised we are running a BETA AdminBot feature for CO-OP gameplay.

This feature is currently in testing, hence the BETA. Therefore we are keen to hear thoughts of the community so we can listen to your feedback for improvements.

WHAT IS THIS SYSTEM?

This feature allows the AdminBot (|SOG|Jessica) to administrate gameplay on the CO-OP servers ONLY.

The tactic used is a simple points system for all players. The AdminBot monitors gameplay and checks for violations before warning players. If warnings are ignored, the AdminBot kicks players from the server.

WHY HAVE YOU ADDED THIS FEATURE?

Quite simply to improve gameplay in our servers. We are committed to providing the best CO-OP servers in SWAT 4. Our AdminBot ensures we operate a firm but fair admin policy consistently, with or without our members being present. Therefore to ensure our servers now include only tactically minded, team players, this improvement ensures compliance is met.

Ultimately, we ONLY wish to provide a server for players that respect ROE, respect other players, and wish to have fun in a manner that follows the game principles. If this is not you, we encourage you to join other servers.

SO HOW DOES IT WORK?

All players start with 0 points everytime they join our CO-OP servers.

The Adminbot looks at key player gameplay choices as determined by the SWAT 4 game. These include the following;

- Unauthorised suspect kills as determined by the game (shooting against ROE)
- Killing civilians in any manner
- Team killing other coop players
- Suicides of any description

Four penalty points expire after every 20 minutes of gameplay

OK. SO WHAT ACTIONS ARE TAKEN?

- Unauthorised suspect kills = 2 points each
- Killing a hostage = 4 points each
- Player Suicide = 3 points each
- Teamkilling = 5 points each occurrence

With the above logic in mind, the AdminBot will then;

ADMINS NOT PRESENT ON SERVER:
4 points = 1st WARNING MADE
8 points = FINAL WARNING MADE
10 points = KICKED FROM SERVER
15 points = TEMP BANNED FOR ONE WEEK

ADMINS PRESENT ON SERVER:
4 points = 1st WARNING MADE
8 points = ADMINS INFORMED
10 points = ADMINS INFORMED
15 points = PLAYER FORCED LESS LETHAL FOR ONE ROUND

IMPORTANT:

The game does have some bugs in regards to unauthorised suspect kills. This no doubt will result in points being obtained unfairly. However these bugs are not as frequent as some players will suggest. Some players will use this for an excuse or their own personal justification for killing suspects without need. This ensures a fairer tolerance to players in these circumstances. However, whichever way this is looked at, the adminbot is only responding to the game mechanic. Points are only attributed to players whereby the end round scoring will be affected. Some players must remember that the majority of our players can play for hours in our servers without enough points to be kicked. In this case, we would respectfully ask players being kicked by the adminbot for unauthorised kills to look at their own gameplay and reflect. These players are generally speaking, not really adhering to the rules of engagement that police should in this game.

IS THIS LINKED TO PLAYER STATS

Yes it is. Your deaths in coop and penalty points reduce your score visible on the stats.

CAN I PROVIDE FEEDBACK?

Yes, constructively please. We will not be removing this feature and only improving it. Therefore, please provide feedback that will help this get better opposed to state it's removal. Most will agree the reasons for this feature are to better enhance the coop experience for everyone.

We are keen to hear your thoughts.

*PLEASE NOTE, WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE BOT CRITERIA AT ANYTIME WITHOUT NOTICE.

Matt

212pm GMT I was kicked by Jessica after an unspecified rule violation. If there was a text warning, I did not see it. Columbo was in the server and so was Skully. The series of events, as I remember them was vault at DuPlessis diamond center. I was stacked right and flashing left. I followed my flash left and did not have a contact to 12 so i went hard left and had a suspect facing that I punched and strafed out of his line of fire. I issued compliance and punched again and he appeared to be giving up, so I equipped flex cuffs and was shot from behind and took damage. I turned around and saw no threat, so I continued to flex cuff when I saw Jessica state I would now be kicked. I immediately rejoined and asked wtf did Jessica say I did? Columbo said I did absolutely nothing and that I should post here so Jessica's BETA can be researched and fine tuned.

Oh great! Players that take papper balls will be nightmare for those who take lethal. Altho I see some positives here as Jess will kick 'Rambos' and no need for admins around

And as I correctly understood its lasting a session as you play and then points restets to 0 til you play another session? But how does it effects our stats and what will it shows in it?

Today you killed unauthorised atleast 5 times.

5 at 2 points each is 10

Meaning kick from server.

So jess did not bug but did what it was supposed to do at the time points do not reset per map change.

If i good understood Matt, then it's should restart points after change map.. If not, then when restart?

No, points are valid for one server session. That means for each gaming session not just each map. As I said though caps do apply for civ and suspect kills each round
Basically as orion said

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

So, essentially, garbage in equals garbage out. The game gets it wrong and Jess bases things on faulty data. It should reset every 30 minutes--in my less than humble opinion.

I would read my post above. From my years of experience in swat 4, indeed the game does get it wrong or should we say leaving a debate... However this is few and far between. Furthermore the bot has an inbuilt tolerance cap.

The majority of players, (76% since we launched this beta) have not been allocated any points for unauthorised kills. Therefore I think this proves the theory.

I would suggest that those being kicked are a little too trigger happy.

For yourself though.... You've said yourself on these forums you play like the SAS and treat suspects differently to the game. E.g. Shooting runners. Therefore I believe this is why you are being kicked...

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Well, Random was suddenly kicked during a round where he did no unauthorized kills (or other penalties).
By the way, this happend 1h earlier at 1:12 PM (13:12) GMT on the SOG COOP server TSS (Swat4X) on DuPlessis.
I did not see any warnings before, as well. So this was a little weird.
Maybe there was a "little" lag between penalty and actions taken?

Generally i appreciate this system and the intention behind it.

Maybe you should make more transparent to players when they get points, and how many they already have. Maybe display the penalty points via server message or in the personal forum account for example, idk.

And could you explain the session system again? Im not sure i quite get it yet.
When does a "session" end? When the server is restarted, when the player leaves or after a certain time? :)

Greetings

There is indeed a lag between player points being awarded and action taken. This can be reduced but sadly increases server load. Please however be assured the fairness of the points allocated is reliable. The reason for the delay is an example like follows;

Player is already on 2 points, then kills two suspects unauthorised, then a third within quick succession. This results in the potential for another 4 points being allocated (as due to quick succession, bot allows tolerance of the two killed together). Immediately after, they kill a hostage. The player would normally be warned at 4 point interval, however due to the quick succession of 4 points plus 3 for hostage kill, the warning is skipped and the player is warned second time.

This can therefore happen and result in a player being kicked only after one warning due to the late delay.

In regards to the points allocation, everytime a player joins a server, the counter resets (providing it is not immediate). There is a expiring time before the counter is reset after the player leaves. Examples;

Player joins at 12.30PM... They leave at 3.30PM. Ten points tolerance applies for the whole of this time.

Player joins at 1PM. They get kicked at 2.10PM for 10 points. They immediately rejoin the server. The 10 points still apply until the player leaves again.

If I play a dozen maps, I probably take down 2-3 of the 14-15 suspects. Of those 2-3 that I drop, 1-2 is incapacitated and 1-2 is neutralised. About every other round, the game gets one of those situations wrong for a number of reasons. So about every 10-12 maps, I'll be accumulating enough points to be kicked.

It gets more frequent when there are players using LTL shotguns or pepper balls, because if I shoot suspect that was also hit with a pepperball and drop him, the game finds the action of incapacitating him as wrong even though I made the same decision the pepperball shooter did at the exact same time he did. The game considers him under the influence of pepper balls and should not be shot.

I also don't drop runners...I shoot them once in the leg so I can catch up to them and beat the crap out of them ;-)

Not doubting you but the stats speak for themselves mate.... if this was truly a global problem, why have 76% of players so far not received any penalty points? They surely shoot suspects too?

Let's take Columbo for an example (sorry Columbo). Looking at the stats so far, he has played roughly 4hrs today. He has not accumulated any points but has neutralised nearly a dozen suspects.

I am not denying your logic above, far from it. I agree totally that this happens. The answer is to buck the trend. If you are getting points other players are not, this ultimately means you are shooting too many suspects too freely, regardless of the he said, she said, he did, she did, this happened, that happened....

Must say though, the non lethal thing you mention.... don't get it. If I see a player shoot a suspect with the pepper gun, I don't shoot the suspect. If it is a reflex shot, I usually stop firing immediately resulting in the suspect being injured but generally not incapacitated. This doesn't always happen granted, but I guess I must just have less of an itchy trigger finger than others perhaps...

We will review the tolerance levels, but in line with the status quo... hence why this is a beta

I would take under consideration not counting the unauthorized shooting as the penalties for auto-warns and/or kicks/temp bans. As far as Jessica is only Jessica, she can't know if the shooting was just a mistake or on purpose. As far as shooting civilians or teammembers is much often on purpose and those rule violations are usually more serious. However, shooting unauthorized is more like a mistake, game bug or just depends on the time of reaction, while the suspect stops aiming and starts running just before the player shoots.

Shooting unauthorized should be rather a violations penalized by human being who can judge if the shooting is on purpose or not. Even if the player gets not so many points for such violation, they damage the statistics but also can cause a kick or temp ban for players playing like 10 maps in one session, just like Random mentioned.

I had opportunities to experience the 'suspects changing their mind so fast' and get the penalties for nothing to be honest. Also, I've seen some players getting those penalties in such cases.

To sum up, I am totally happy for Jessica taking action in case of killing civilians or teamkilling (would also be good to have her reacting on teamspray or teamshoot like with LL weapons as those are the main things done by really bad players - I know this is a way harder to do as the chatlogs doesn't show that). However there are still some rule violations that really requires Admins with eyes and human brain and can't be penalized by any automated bot. There are still some parts when an active admin is needed and maybe rather some 'admin calling system' would be better than Jessica - at least in some cases.

Best regards,

Well, like Keeries said. Penalties for unauthorized are not precise. Most my unauthorized are due killing suspect while is behide cover or even partly but still aim player - suspect can instant lean any time but killing him is treat as not aiming player - unauthozied. I shot first cuz i know they hell fast when leaning. someone must go down, bugged suspect or me. If i get kick points for that then its would be greatly unfair.

For next days gonna play check it. I want to be sure how it's work in practic.

Based on feedback we will review this later and tweak the current actions taken.

The proposed changes will be for unauthorised kills only and the subsequent actions.

Will post back tonight.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

OK...

BETA UPDATE rev1:

- Jessica (AdminBot) will now only kick players when admins are not present in the server.
- When admins are in the server, control will be handed back to the admins. Penalty points are still recorded and warnings will also be made.
- Players will not be kicked when admins are present, however if penalty points exceed 15, the AdminBot will intervene and force the player to use less lethal (unless the admin responds prior).

- Player Suicide = 3 points each


Why this is a punishment? I dont know many players who join game and suicide so others do minute of silence :)

Indeed but there is absolutely no reason for players to distrupt gameplay and suicide so it is therefore a rule violation

What I wanted to say is that theres none, even hardcore troll will do a suicide just for laughs. Suicides happens on mistakes and everyone do mistakes. And that mostly happens when there is a gas tank behind suspect. Flash/sting also can be the reason of suicide. You cant be safe from that in all scenarios. And yet you get almost same amount of punishment points as killing civi. Not like im defending crooked hands and dont think it happens that often. Just didnt get why its even a thing

Agree that's why the tolerance allows 4 suicides before kick. It's simply a condition for the fact it shouldn't happen regardless of accident.

Maybe I'm missing the point? Some trolls do purposely suicide to end the round for whatever reason

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

I think a lot of people understand the point of unauthorized kills being highly flawed. Besides, very rarely does a cop fire one round at a suspect. When lethal fire is authorized, it's to protect innocent life. Officers fire until the threat is eliminated. Never does any department teach to fire one shot, see how it goes, then follow it up with another round if necessary, repeat as needed. Some jurisdictions train their officers that, once lethal force is authorized--empty your entire handgun mag, if that's what it takes for the suspect to drop the weapon. Do what you must to survive and keep other innocent people safe.

As far as the suicide thing goes, I partially get it. When there are only two players in the server, some trolls hide in corners or less frequently traveled portions of the map and drop from the server so the remaining player can't vote the map to end and will have a hard time finding the final TOC. It's very annoying, but other than that, many times people join just after another player starts a round, so they immediately suicide to give that person a chance to play. Other players will suicide if the other player in the server dies early in the round. These are situations where voting the map would be the best choice, but it still happens and shouldn't really result in points added. Of course there are times when a rambo goes on a killing spree ending with taking their own life. That's really the only time a suicide should be a penalty. I think the point value for a suicide should be minimal...like perhaps 1 point. If they are maliciously suiciding, I'm sure they are doing much worse things that will accumulate points without needing to crack down on suiciding so harshly.

We will look at all options in this BETA, but we will not be reducing the points for suicide. The managers have decided this scoring is fair and appropriate. For the most players who wish to play correctly, this suicide penalty is simply not discussed or an issue.

In regards to the shooting unauthorised, this is something we will continue to penalise, however the parameters are open for discussion.

We will ensure the community gets a final vote.

BETA REVISION 3

From the community feedback, we have made another change to this system.

The reasoning is to further prevent trolls / rambos but ensure fair treatment for our serious gamers

- All instances of the violations (unauthorised kills, suicides, teamkills & killing hostages), are now recorded with penalties. There are no caps or limits per round.
- The Bot now automatically deducts 4 points every ten minutes of gameplay unless you have 0 penalty points already.
- No deductions are made if you leave the server. Points you left the server on, stand.

Example:

Player joins server and immediately kills 4 suspects unauthorised within the first ten minutes.
2 x 4 = 8 penalty points awarded
Player continues to play in the server for ten minutes without further violations. Therefore bot deducts 4 points off the players penalties.
8 - 4 = 4 penalty points remaining

Please feedback your thoughts from the server.
__________________

If I understand it correctly, I like it.
A player quickly gets 4 ua kills, accumulates 8 points and leaves the server. Before the update, he would return with 0 points, now those 8 points are still attached to him when he returns. The longer I play my points are partially restored by -4 every 10 minutes, so long sessions don't result in a kick middle of a round.

May I suggest something to reduce the amounts of messages (text clutter) during the round? Only display messages for violations. Do not display for legal incapacitations, legal neutralization or arrests.

This can be done but is useful for admins to see this information. Furthermore I'm currently enhancing our stats to display how many track how many suspects have been incapacitated by the player. This will then build into the experience scoring.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

There must be a way to change that text so only the admins see the legal stuff. Keep the illegal stuff visible to all so players can vote kick and report and screenshot evidence. I mean I know I just arrested that suspect because I was there when it happened ;-)

There is so much text with the chat and the arresting that the screen is always full of text. It would give more time to get an evidence screen shot with more real evidence per screen grab because all the meaningless stuff would be gone.

Beta revision 3, the idea is great, the problem is that if I'm playing by myself. Within the first round I end up getting 8/10 for unauthorized stuff that is not in my control. The next round I have to play LL if I don't want to get kicked...

But as I said in server... for every ten minutes played, the penalty points are deducted by 4... this allows for these situations.

Problem is, it is a very fine line between a rambo / troll and players making mistakes

Yes, I posted this before you came in the server :P

But I agree, a very fine line, especially when playing alone since you're the only one making mistakes!

Just had solo games and all went good until 2 players joined. Cant say that they were shooting everithign that moves but that was close to it and every round we had horrible penalties. Bot warned them both about reaching the maximum amount of penalties. After 10 minutes it decreases. Funny thing that they ddint even noticed that as kept shooting most of the time getting injured or dying meanwhile.
Imho need to do somethign with that hehe. Maybe increase penalty points or decrease max penality amount or increases time when they burn out. They still will play with LTL tho after reaching the 'top'. Just some thoughts :)

Are you saying it's not strict enough? I thought it would be the opposite.

I can make it stricter...can you confirm

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Yea I know its weird. Even tho I go full lethal, I got used to unfair penalities by the game and trying to not get into situations where it appears. Getting close to suspects as fast as possible and eliminate them if they not comply- that is my strategy. I cant speak for everyone about that but I felt it could be more unforgiving. Since its in Beta and we have to do more of the testing to find the gold middle.

I have increased the time to twenty minutes now before 4 point deduction. Let's see how that goes....

Thanks for the feedback

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Maybe have Jessica Force less-lethal for players returning with 10 or more points, and have her restore weapons after 20 minutes when penalties are reduced by 4 Points???

That new list of players in game chat with penalties/deaths/score doesnt show much as it shows players who played it few hours and then stopped. With new score system they got 100% and will keep that 100% since they not playing and obviously not dying. I would suggest add list of players who actually playing game often and keep recalculation for this list weekly. So it wont show same players over and over again

It's still in development at the moment.... Ignore it as haven't finished it yet lol

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Thought so ))

How does penaltiy score counts on status bar on web page? Looks like it differ from in game score
Otherwise I must have more penalties for sure

Basically the score now displayed in the "TOP 5" ingame and the stats at website is calculated as follows:

Time spent in servers / (deaths + penalties)

The stats is now displayed correctly in game but only for the top 5 players weekly by score.

An example at the moment with your score:

Orion ---- 236527 / (5 deaths + 4 penalty points) = 86% (calciulated as percentage)

Thats good but I wondering how does penalties dysplay
Yesterday I had 8 penaltiy score points ingame and on web page I got only 4?

That is because the bot gives players 4 points back again every 20 minutes ;) (if they are over 4 in the first place)

Whatever you leave the game server on, is the number used.

So the moral of the story is, keep playing in the server and try not to be killed or get penalty points. Those players will be the ones with the best score